Lazy Man and Money. December 27, by Lazy Man Comments. I apologize in advance for another post about the evils of some multi-level networking scams. However, before I get into the post, let me give you a little background on Orrin Woodward and Team.

However, rather than take my words for it, let me quote what Forbes has to say about Team:. Team is one step ahead of all these juice selling schemes. It is a pyramid atop a pyramid. It is selling motivational aids to help MonaVie vendors move the juice. Everybody, that is, except the last round of buyers. Hope is an expensive commodity. Their marriage has fallen apart as a result.

This is why I get so riled up with MonaVie and organizations like Team. It brings debt and destruction to families. I have spent the last several years studying the scams, schemes, and cons perpetrated on the American masses through the use of coercion. As a Top 10 Leadership Guru, I cannot sit by idly and watch Americans lose their freedoms without speaking up. The mention of the Top 10 Leadership Guru is laughable. If you look at LeadershipGurus. Amthrax breaks down Arthur Carmazzi: The Truth Behind LeadershipGurus.

As suspected, the website is a scam and anyone believing it will likely buy a bridge from you. Next, Orrin Woodward attempts to play the hero by helping protect freedom for Americans. So protecting freedom for Americans… more bovine excrement. She was the victim of an insurance scam. Government is the only true monopoly of force available in any society.

Coercion requires force, which involves either government intervention or mafia type tactics. Free enterprise businesses, like Network Marketing, cannot be a scam, since people are free to come and free to go, they will simply leave and the scam will collapse.

Government scams like social security, income taxes, and fiat money inflation, to name just a few, take advantage of the masses, since the masses are forced to participate against their will, whether their needs are being met or not. Learning and defending American freedoms, against the encroachment of coercive government interventions, has become a key educational plank in my readings, writings and speeches of late.

Amthrax said it best here: If you stick with TEAM and follow its principles, you will succeed. How is that not coercion through edification and fear? In such cases, people are coerced, but clearly are not forced. Thus we note two pieces of bovine excrement here: Scams do require force and 2.

Coercion does not require force. Income tax pays for many of the things that make America great. If someone attempts a scam, without the power of coercion, it will not last. Many will call Network Marketing a scam, but unless backed by coercion, meaning people are not free to leave, Networking cannot be a scam. Networking has been around for well over sixty years, and scams cannot last that long unless backed by some form of coercion.

Since we established above that coercion does not require force, we can look at what coercive forces play into MLMs in general. These are just a couple of ways that people are coerced by the scam to buy a product that is priced above market price. MonaVie lays a couple of levels on the typical MLM scheme. For one, you have top distributors like Mitch Biggs claiming MonaVie prevents swine flu , which is highly illegal.

Claims like these and thousands of others give the impression that MonaVie has medicinal properties. Some of that may be placebo effect and some of it may be dishonest distributors. The bottom line is that people are coerced into believing that its market price should be dictated by the price of medicine and not the price of juice. Does Orrin Woodward really believe that there is no coercion in MonaVie?

Read this actual letter from a MonaVie distributor. This is especially true because MonaVie lacks nutrition in independent lab tests. Finally are distributors really free to leave MonaVie?

There is a very large PDF of a court case of Xowii suing MonaVie , because Kelly Bangert tried to leave. Xowii claims that Henry Marsh a MonaVie Executive VP put an end to that with coercion. Of note are Exhibit A and Exhibit B at the end of the document. The above quote is also true of pyramid schemes which illegal in many countries including the United States. I love my business relationship with Dallin Larsen and MonaVie, and I have friends in many other Networking companies.

There are many great companies and leaders in Networking and the more we lift one another, the more the Networking tide rises for all in our profession. If you really believe in your Networking business, just build it, allowing your actions to speak louder than your words. Leaders will flock from around the world if you have truly created a better business model. Any business that has been successful over the years, if not the decades, must be serving their customers in order to survive in a true free enterprise model.

I do attack MonaVie and Team it does build my own enterprise. However, I had established Lazy Man and Money years before I heard about MonaVie. Woodward offers up another piece of bovine excrement for your enjoyment.

Malcolm Gladwell, a best selling author, teaches that success in any field requires 10, hours of diligent study and action. Anything less, and that person is still an amateur in his profession. For example, in high school, I wrestled in many tournaments. The sour grapes wrestler would have been laughed out of the arena, since many do not win medals, not having at that moment, learned the skills and put in the hours to win at a tournament level.

Is it possible that people are just calling a spade a spade? He knows that 0. So he wants to keep that Is that the kind of commitment you want to make to something that fails And as for the Malcolm Gladwell and 10, hours claim… maybe Orrin Woodward should pay attention to what he reads more. I reviewed Outliers , the book where Malcolm Gladwell makes the statement. The important part of the chapter was that the examples cited The Beatles, Bill Joy, and Bill Gates all had a unique opportunity advantage such as being in the right place at the right time.

Gladwell points out that being born around in Silicon Valley put both the aforementioned Bills in place to be the right age to have youthful exuberance at the time that personal computers were picking up steam.

He also says that a similar thing happened during the Industrial Revolution. This unique opportunity is necessary in addition to the 10, hours of work. With Network Marketing, you have no unique opportunity advantage. It is interesting that Woodward brings up the wrestling.

Orrin Woodward would like you to believe that buying his tools will give you the skills that you need to be Michael Jordan, but it is like buying Nike Air shoes and going to basketball camp. The NBA can only have so many basketball players in it just as MLMs are mathematically set up to only allow a few people to succeed. The system is against you. The wise thing would be to recognize that failure has nothing to do with your work ethic. If someone felt they were hurt, why not seek out the leaders of the company or community for resolution?

Any reputable company would serve the customer in a heartbeat. Here is where I think that Orrin Woodward is addressing my Juice Scam website. More and more people are writing about their bad experiences Team nowadays. They have refused my requests. Perhaps Orrin Woodward and Team would be more willing. People bring their concerns to their upline and the upline tells them not to worry and tries to sell them another tool to motivate them more.

Perhaps, the real reason that many post in Networking are anonymous, postings that act as if they are upset at the company, are because they are from competitors, not real customers. Sadly, this egregious behavior happens often, leading to much of the negative written online.

When the perceived opportunity for gain exceeds the applied character of those involved, parasite marketing will typically occur. In America, one is free to win, free to lose, and, even free to blame. Calling winners names, calling the tournament profession a scam, pointing fingers at others, all in an effort to salve a wounded pride.

Accepting responsibility is the beginning of all leadership growth. In Networking, unless the person was forced to attend meetings against his will, forced to buy materials without a buy back provision, why is he passing judgment on others for his lack of results? The minute you blame others for your failures is the minute you surrender responsibility for your own life. Once again, scams have nothing to do with required force.

Or you can watch Brian Dunning on Network Marketing. Instead of owning up to that basic math that applies not only to MonaVie, but Network Marketing in general, Orrin tries to pass the buck on the person. You failed at your goal of being an NFL quarterback, then it is your fault. In the Team, we teach that freedom is a gift and we support your freedom to win, lose or leave, voting with your own feet.

The tens of thousands who are part of TEAM, were not coerced into joining, but joined freely by buying into the leadership culture. No business would be foolish enough to publicly state that, unless they knew that All reputable Networking companies in our profession offer similar refund policies. If you look into the study of cults , you can see that MonaVie and Network Marketing in general exhibits cult behavior.

MonaVie threatened legal action to get me to take down my sites twice. Someone associated with MonaVie tried to blackmail me into taking down the information on MonaVie.

The popular website where distributors were able to free comment, Purple Horror , was scrubbed clean and turned into a pro-MonaVie website. Feel free to look at the old version and compare it against the current one. Of course, using mind control techniques and cult behavior most certainly counts as coercing. The day money back guarantee is something that almost every company offers. Even male enhancement pills that are also shown not to work have such guarantees.

They are any number of people who realize that they wasted their money, but the days had long passed. Orrin goes to list a couple of videos of the top successful people to further try to convince people that it is the norm, not the exception. When I told my good friend at The Soap Boxers about the post, he made two great points:. MonaVie , orrin woodward , scam , team. April 22, at 9: What about health insurance? Because, that is in fact what you refer to in this statement, right? But so is every other business correct?

April 27, at 7: April 27, at April 28, at 4: Definately not chris says. April 30, at Oh that chris is such an idiot. Makes my blood boil. Now that he no longer wanted to spend his time in here, debating with us…. Until the next one comes creeping in. Than we can hammer that one too! April 30, at 9: Yes, clearly Chris is an idiot. Hopefully he figured out the difference between a hierarchical organization and a pyramid scheme. April 30, at 1: Well duh it was me.

I was being silly obviously. Get the FTC on him guys. Ah just messing around. April 30, at 3: I know you were joking around, but the idea of misrepresenting yourself as you is certainly the kind of thing that the FTC is interested in. May 1, at 5: May 1, at 8: Did you read the Forbes article: Here are a couple of quotes:. The two had a contract to work together. Yes, clearly anyone joining any of these schemes did not have the proper guidance to stay away.

The winning move is simply not to get involved in a losing game. May 16, at 4: Just wanted to be left alone, and now I fear I have just made it worse. Money that should have went towards diapers, food etc. I feel like such a shit. May 17, at 2: May 17, at 3: I wanted to thank you for this! I am married to a man that has fallen victim to LIFE, and our marriage is not just falling apart, but I am going to move out of state and file for divorce.

Orin Woodward preys on people when they are at their weakest. The only thing that comes out of this is negative. June 24, at June 28, at Just to clear the air about Orrin Woodward he has changed our life to be very successful.

Everything is dependent on myself to perform and change. Network Marketing is the only way a person with little money become a successful business owner. So you can knock Him down but you better look in the mirror and say your prayers that we have men trying to help each other become better. Many people start websites for little money and become very successful.

July 1, at 4: An old friend of mine recently contacted me and was to tell me all about LIFE Leadership. While she talked about how great it was, I was googling Woodward to find out the truth.

She said she started in Jan. I told her my concern, and she acts like she blames herself! And I did try, but she responds just like a brainwashed cult member. August 12, at You need to get an entrepreneur mind set and realize that financial freedom isnt free. All of the information has helped me in my life in some way. Also, one of my friends got out of a depression with the help of this information what price tag can you put on that?

Make the right choice. August 13, at 6: Lola, you should realize that this website is about entrepreneuralism. Lots of information in the library available for free, so how about we use that as the price tag. Make the right choice, Lola. People at the top of pyramid schemes probably do look like they are doing pretty good. August 13, at 8: Explain to me all of the people that actually do get financially free doing this then? Have a nice day, God bless. August 13, at It looks to me like a pyramid scheme where the people at the bottom are funneling money to the top.

You might as well just ask how to lottery winners get financially free playing the lottery. It cracks me up that you have had this going since You need to find something to do man!

Because of this people are free, and are able to spend time with their family. August 13, at 9: Another thing, how are you a credible source? There are better blogs and probably a whole section of books at the library that will give you great information. If you are looking for help with your finances, you could read some of the posts that I provide here free of charge or even ask me a question.

If you want to read books, I suggest Your Money or Your Life and The Millionaire Fastlane. The later is more for entrepreneurs and explains in detail why MLM is a terrible business.

The former is more about basic personal finance. As for what makes me a credible source, the truth is the truth regardless of source. The logical points that I made in the article are to be debated on their own merit. It is transparent for everyone to see. September 12, at LIFE is not a scam, the only people in it who make no money from it are people in it who do none of the work.

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September 13, at As has been shown here: We evaluate the statement on its own merits. It seems that everyone tacitly agrees that the statements are logical and have merit. So yes, in such a circumstance such as this, focusing on the source instead of the merits of the arguments made is simply trying to mislead people away from the truth.

September 16, at 6: I just want to say my sister and her husband have recently been scammed into this. She took me to a meeting and because I would not join I was contacted by weeks by the woman who got my sister to join. Sadly my sister and her husband have cut all contact with the family because the woman who got her involved said we are all too negative not supporting her by buying into this scam. It makes me sick these people get away with this and sad so many people are blinded by the promise of getting ahead.

September 17, at 1: Oreo and his acolytes abruptly quit the previous church he was attending over a rift that involved, among other issues, money!

September 18, at Just got the sales pitch for life from a guy at work. I told him I would think about it, Which means No. He basically told me I could clear a month and not really do anything. The video he showed me was absolutely terrible. September 27, at 7: I have not been a member of the Team for a few years.

I do continue to buy Monavie monthly and people close to me have seen great results. I feel this blog is unfair representation of Orin! I have been to the red tie cult like events and seen him and chris brady speak. I see people start in the business and fail….. I have had my own business for many years. I started as a business man in 6th grade and have made my costly mistakes!! Team and monavie give normal people a chance to excel!

Your odds of success in MLM are more similar to buying lottery tickets than running a traditional business.

October 4, at 5: Their relationship is all but a business joint now. They where initially introduced to this company as Christians looking to make their marriage stronger. Now, Nothing outside of team matters. They solicit everyone they come in contact with in jargon…. They are about to lose their home Step father suddenly thinks paying income tax is unimportant because one of the leaders said as much.

Everyone and everything is a source of adversity and animosity to them. You are taught not to watch television as it is a source of corrupted information and a waste of free time. Nothing team teaches you cannot be leaned elsewhere business wise. They prey on the weak and devoted of faith. November 28, at I was a member of Amway back when Orrin first started years ago.

Yes I knew him when he wore glasses, and had about 20 — 40 people in his group. I knew him well. He was ambitious, motivated, and a very positive influence overall. Yes, Amway is annoying, and potentially breaks up families in a weird way mostly due to the pressure to get more distributors but it also brings families together like it did mine although none of us are still involved it was a positive overall experience , but it also teaches one about life in a positive way, and trains you in how to live it.

Why not follow a group who are focused on positive, who are focused on helping you be positive, who are all trying to be better people? Is it based on greed? Reading everything on both sides of TEAM it sounds exactly like Amway was.

And what is Amway? Essentially a church with products, so that is what TEAM is, a church. Let them be excited, maybe it will work, maybe not. But we must learn on our own. You are still in the matrix my friend, and you know what? I envy you sometimes. Also, MLM is not evil. For those who want to succeed, then it is possible. Hell, becoming a millionaire is not easy. Nothing is easy, and to be that kind of successful you need to change your mind, and to do that you must immerse yourself in good teaching.

Yes, you need to brainwash yourself. And he says the number one attribute for success is persistence. If you want to be a millionaire you will need to be persistent with something. Orrin is simply offering you a vehicle to be persistent with, a vehicle for success. November 29, at 9: You could say that people should be persistent in buying lottery tickets.

I never said that Orrin is perfect, but I suggest you read the article again. November 29, at That is not even remotely Christianity in a nutshell. It is the antithesis of Christianity. How can you not know that?

Amway is not a church and neither is TEAM. You seem to have a very hard time recognizing grossly obvious dissimilarities between things, like an MLM cult-scam versus church; self-serving BS versus Christianity. Why change the subject. Why do MLM apologists always avoid talking about specifics and instead revert to moronic analogies?

Your claim is entirely inconsistent with reality. Persistence with a near impossible task is virtually the definition of insanity think Sisyphus. No amount of brainwashing can make someone successful in selling worthless overpriced MLM products for which there is little to no demand.

If someone wants to be a millionaire they should be persistent in making wise long-term investment choices — MLM is the polar opposite. No, tucking your money away consistently and avoiding money pits like MLM is the key to success. I appreciate you demonstrating the incredibly F-ed up reasoning of MLM apologists. It serves as a good cautionary tale for everyone reading this board.

October 6, at You said you needed some facts to contradict whether or not Life Leadership is a pyramid scheme or not. My understanding is that a pyramid scheme offers no true retail-only opportunity. With Life Leadership there is a retail opportunity that is separate from the MLM. And you do NOT have to be a part of the MLM side of LL to be part of the retail side of LL. The Christian books you can sell are by well-known and well-respected authors such as R.

Tozer, Josh McDowell, Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Ken Ham, James Montgomery Boice and others. If you find value in the materials Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, Tim Marks have produced then you can sell them as well. So I a looking at this from the retail side and see an opportunity.

If you could directly quote my words regarding that, I would appreciate it. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money. So then you have to look at the top earners in Life and see if they are making their money through retailing the products to the public, people NOT in Life , or if they are making their money based on recruiting.

You would be the most gullible person on Earth. No Orrin supporter seems to debate any of the dozens of misleading comments and lies that I pointed out in the article… something that hundreds of supporters has had the opportunity to do.

I suggest sticking to those. Just found your site and this is great!!

You have done your research. I literally just got off the phone with someone who wants to take me to a LiFE meeting or whatever it is called. I sell products that are tangible. I am truly living the dream! I am very familiar with all this jazz, but this kind of baffles me.

Just seems bizarre that this has gone on for as many years as it has. This guy knows what he is doing. I hope I can help her in some way to stop throwing money at this…. October 7, at October 13, at 5: I rarely respond to these types of posts but I have to admit I felt the need to say something. This is a grossly biased and unfair view of a company that is not fair for the public to read.

You at one point said: This is a direct quote from Lazyman. If you would like to discuss these points openly and transparently I think it is first important to start with an open mind. It is only fair to the public. First off, Orrin is now a co-founder of LIFE Leadership so the Monavie business, although it has similar principles to LIFE, is completely different. So one couple who have obviously had troubles in the past since you allude to her involvement with Amway, should not be the quintessential couple you base the business on.

First, there is no data or evidence to prove that, second, these statistics and also; the article from Forbes is now completely irrelevant considering we are now talking about a new business. First, all leadership ranking lists are OPINIONS. Once again, no hard fact, no hard evidence, so hardly of any worth but cool to put on your resume I guess. Your next paragraph about Orrin protecting freedom, you use old examples and statistics that I already showed were useless.

Like free speech, for instance, which you clearly utilized in this post. In response to this scam definition, you obviously have no background or experience in dealing with this business or the people in it, therefore, once again you are not a credible source to determine if the people are fraudulent or deceptive either in operations of business or in their personalities and desires.

Considering this logic, it cannot be defined as a scam. You may have come into contact with a business owner just starting out who made it seem like they were trying to coerce you but I can assure you it is only a concerned person tying to help, not trying to ruin your life.

That is the most completely ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Also, businesses are trying to coerce you everyday, with commercials, with advertisements, that is the nature of business. Since you consider yourself some type of business guru you should probably already realize this. This argument is just completely irrelevant. Then you go into scams again and all that nonsense, once again it is impossible to define it as a scam as I stated above and even sited yourself.

So that seems contradictory. Your next few paragraphs go on about scams and Monavie and quite frankly I find them irrelevant now or I have already addressed most, if not all the points. The next important issue to address is this hilarious notion that it is a pyramid. This statement alone proves you have had no introduction or even slight experience with LIFE Leadership.

I will say this and only this. The community is compensated but it is possible to make more money than the person who brought you into the business in the first place which is the very opposite of a pyramid. LIFE Leadership does supply investment and sale of products to the public, so once again this statement that this business is a pyramid scheme is grossly incorrect.

Now to address all these stories of failure. These people you know are all on different levels. As soon as you are shown LL, they say straight up, this will not be easy and not everyone will want to go through with it. It may put you out of your comfort zone, you may just not want to put the work in, but if you do the work, put your time in and follow the system you will have success. I have family members who at the age of 31 are retired and can spend as much time as they want with their two little girls.

I myself at just a measly 20 years old will probably never have to work an actual full time job in my life. October 13, at 7: This article no more biased than one against domestic violence. Typically, it is those in MLM who have the closed mind to not understand pyramid schemes. They hear Orrin Woodward claim that a hierarchical organization without recruiting like a company is a pyramid scheme and ignore that pyramid schemes involve recruiting.

MLM has had its chance to have an open mind. It still has a chance to prove itself as a legitimate business, but we need to see the sales the top people are making to ensure that they are making their money from sales to people outside the company and not recruiting them.

When I wrote the article, Orrin was in MonaVie. However, I did provide the statistics that showed In fact you can see it was the same in in Canada and in other countries.

As for the Inc. And in fact, it was done by Jurgen Appelo who created the methodology such that he himself is in the Top That methodology includes nonsesical things like Google searches. There are infinite terms that could be searched and used for this. When looking at list like this, you need to do a little sanity check.

Are you telling me that Jurgen Appelo is a bigger influencer than Mark Cuban? Well, I saw Mark Cuban on CNBC today, not Jurgen Appelo. You are the one looking find something that proves you right about Orrin, not something that proves the truth.

However, there is no freedom to scam others. If he talks about the government taking freedom, some people will agree with him and think because they agree with him on this one thing they should agree with them all things. Actually, I have years of experience of studing this business and I am a credible source. It is like a pickpocket saying that only someone with experience in being a pickpocket can be credible source to determine if people are stealing or not.

Like with MLMers, the LEAST credible people are the ones who are profiting from the scam. They are the ones who are truly financially biased. MLMers never talk about this. Their bias clouds them from understanding basic logic.

I explained why this is wrong. People are given false and erroneous information about MLM. They want to believe it is not a scam. People never view themselves as a bad guy. Snake oil salesman actually believe their products work. This is why MLM is a scam. They spread this falsehood as if it is the truth, when it is not. In fact, the FTC shut down Fortune Hi-Tech Martketing where it was impossible to make more than the person above you.

Once again, MLM shows that the blind is leading the blind…. I thank you for the Wikipedia definition of pyramid scheme. Usually Wikipedia is a trustworthy resource. The FTC went before a Federal court to get Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing shut down and it clearly delivered products and services. If they were more transparent we could see if they are a pyramid scheme. Unfortunately they are not.

Only so many people can be successful, because they need to recruit so many, many people to make money. The lie that MLMers tell is that it is about work, but it is like saying that a golfer can hit 10 straight holes in one if they put in the work. They fail to note that the circumstances are making practice essentially irrelevant.

Again, it is another thing that MLMers never address. Finally, failure is not matter of effort, it is a mathematical certainty. October 13, at 6: October 13, at 9: It was difficult to hone in on the core arguments that Emily was trying to make in her long-winded screed in defense of OW, but I did my best to summarize and debunk them below.

The site is infinitely more objective than the lopsided anti-LazyMan phillipic that Emily wrote. If she considers it unfair for people to be exposed to biased information about OW, then she should be pointing the finger at OW himself and his bootlicking minions.

Clearly it is relevant. While pointing to Inc magazine, Emily, conveniently failed to acknowledge the article that Forbes magazine did on OW, which essentially accused him of being a pyramid schemer. By definition, what Orrin does cannot be considered a scam because people are free to choose whether or not to participate. It simply has no basis in logic or in law. From OW himself; why was that not readily apparent to you?

It was a quote pulled from his website; he described taxes as a government scam. What OW does cannot be described as a pyramid scheme because according to my definition of a pyramid scheme…. The central premise of your argument is a strawman because you are not using a correct definition of a pyramid scheme. The correct definition according to the FTC, which LazyMan has discussed in depth repeatedly applies to what OW does, which is also presumably why Forbes described it as a pyramid scheme on top of a pyramid scheme.

There was all that indignation and misdirected ire, but basis for it was nothing but fluff. October 14, at 4: I could take facts and push them and pull them any way I want to to make them look a certain way and so can Vogel and Lazyman. I know plenty of people that choose to bad mouth the business as well but it was only because they did not take the initiative in their own business.

That is why I choose to be positive about the business. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I respect Vogel and Lazyman for theirs. I am just saying that for all this negative that I have seen on this website alone, I have seen so much much more positive come from this business through family and friends. I came straight out and said I am not speaking of or for Monvie, only LIFE and also you are completely biased as well.

I could point out several quotes that prove that fact. I was simply presenting facts as was asked for by Lazyman himself that were in opposition to what he had said.

There are statistics and stories and negative remarks about every great business and every great leader, that is just the way life is. I encourage and even challenge Lazyman and Vogel to look with new eyes at LIFE Leadership. In two years it made as much money as it took Walmart to make in 20 years. There is a new income disclosure statement, new statistics and new information for a NEW company. Look at the NEW information instead of rehashing old arguments.

Which by the way, EVERY list of leaders IS AN OPINION. Any that you can dredge up are too. Although Lazyman seems much more informed, he too does not understand that this business utilizes a completely new business model. That is all I have to say about it. I just hope that my comment makes you want to recheck some things on this new business instead of just haphazardly assigning them to both old and new. Perhaps look at LL with new eyes and reassess, besides why would you take an older business with different owners and assume that a new business with different founders would create the same thing?

There are no owners.

There are founders, which you can become a founder yourself just by working your way up to it, which each year they take another step to perfect the business and they are making it easier and easier to do. You two may distrust OW. But you gotta ask yourselves, why did he create this new company? Or could it be maybe he saw a way to better a flawed company? He wanted to help more people more easily?

He was trying to find a way to perfect a broken system? Maybe that is what life is about, being better. Maybe that is what he did to a flawed system. October 14, at 7: The same is true with fraud and pyramid schemes are a form of fraud. I stay away from being negative on my site. The bulk of this article predates everything about LIFE. As has been pointed out many times before with Enron and Madoff, they scammed people who were free to leave.

The MonaVie stuff is relevant for the reasons that Vogel mentioned.

The question is why would you NOT be against someone using erroneous logic to scam them? Thanks for challenging me to look at LIFE with new eyes. However, if you want, my friend Amthrax has been covering Orrin on his website for years. He has extensive information pointing to LIFE being a scam. Yesterday, I linked you to analysis of the LIFE compensation plan. The compensation plan is so similar that the the distributors on YouTube slip up and call it TEAM at the 1: Nothing about this is NEW except for very minor, inconsequencial tweaks.

What do you think makes it new? Do you not see the Point Values and recruiting rewards of getting money based on a downline?

As you say, every list of leaders is a matter of opinion, but again, no educated person would consider Orrin Woodward to be a better leader than Mark Cuban or Bill Belichick. So if you see a list where Orrin is ahead of those two, then you know you are looking an uneducated opinion… similar to one having the opinion that the world is flat.

Those businesses are fundamentally different. People have said they had their entire business pulled out from under them. If LIFE wants to be legitimate, they should fire Orrin from his miscommunications alone.

Let me know when LIFE does this. MonaVie decided it wanted to sell its own tools, so Orrin was left without much of a business. So Orrin had to create a new company if he wanted to make money. October 14, at 8: I mean when you Originally got started? Was it when Orrin was in Amway, Team of Destiny or Team in Hiding, then Team Monavie or the Team now called LIFE? October 15, at 2: So your opening salvo is an unfounded ad hominem attack i.

That kind of naked hypocrisy is offensive. Drawing false equivalencies is intellectually dishonest. If we were talking about a high school reading program where only one kid out a hundred learned to read, would you point to that outlier and their atypical experience to defend the program? The same principle applies with OWs scams. The failure rates are staggeringly high and it is easy to condemn the enterprise on that basis regardless of the experience of a few outliers.

Why lie about it? What on earth are you talking about?

Asea Scam? - Lazy Man and Money

Which is exactly why I called you out for trying to sweep Monavie under the rug. Why would you purposely avoid taking about Monavie? OW negatively impacted a lot of people by coercing them into a pyramid scam predicated on the sale of overpriced favored water. To ignore it is deceptive. My eyes work just fine. Do you have any FACTS to put on the table? Again, just own it and stop deluding yourself.

Do you know this is exactly the same type of BS OW has been saying for years. He was even saying it prior to Monavie. The Monavie peeps were saying that that opportunity was going to be the next Google…the next Microsoft. We all know how that worked out — crash and burn. And well we should. Forbes magazine basically called him a pyramid schemer. He put people on stage as models of success when in fact they were bankrupt with homes in foreclosure — barefaced lies!

Why on earth would anyone choose to go into business with someone like that? It would be like hiring a hungry cannibal to be your babysitter. He wants to help himself; not other people.

He ran that same tired line about fixing a broken system after he got fired and sued by Amway. What did he do next? So much for fixing things eh? October 20, at 6: The only reason I so staunchly defend this business is because for all that negative I read, all those stories of people losing subscriptions or going in debt, I know so many many many more people who have truly bettered their lives with this business.

I was encouraging people to look for themselves, NOT INVEST. But look around, look at as many facts, as many websites and articles and listen to as many stories from people as you can.

I think using info from only one source is misleading sometimes. Especially when you guys are opinionated. I truly do wish you guys the best, honestly. I DO respect your ideas and thoughts and I think you bring up good points that should be thought over.

However, I also sincerely disagree. October 20, at 9: When you spend hours writing extremely long comments, the assumption is that you are being sincere.

Quite frankly, only a jerk would spend that kind of time without being sincere. In fact, it calls for a stronger word than jerk, but this is a family blog.

We know it is true, because Enron and Madoff scammed people and they were all free to take their money and leave. Why should one evaluate a source that is greatly influenced by the liar? As for wanting an experienced pilot, that would be relevant if you were flying a plane. You are trying to determine if something is a good business plan and you essentially asking the biased person who makes money if you join.

Don’t Expect ‘A Meaningful Life’ From MonaVie

Would you take his word for it, or would you talk to an unbiased mechanic? You should talk to the unbiased mechanic… which is me. I have shown that Orrin has a history of selling lemons and the information at Amthrax shows that LIFE is another lemon.

If you want a more technical reason please read this old article from a couple of years back: Real Life Experience vs. October 21, at 2: The discussion here revolves around verifiable facts and logical deductions about OWs so-called business opportunity. He has been saddled with expensive litigation settlements and called the equivalent of a pyramid scammer by Forbes magazine.

The income disclosure statements prove time and time again that OWs MLM ventures result in financial losses for the vast majority of participants. My first reaction is not that you are a jerk. October 29, at 4: This conversation between Emily and Lazy Man and Vogel was rather disturbing in such negativity and did nothing to help anyone. Such bad ,bad feeling from Lazy and Vogel that I wonder about your ages as you sound like children in a verbal battle instead of professionals trying to help people make adult decision about LL.

We are all here to learn not listen to such childish bantering. October 29, at 5: Emily did nothing of the kind and was simply trying to derail productive discussion.

Vogel brought many important details in his post. These people come here to defend Woodward with logical fallacies. November 9, at I want to add my two cents. When you go to the Tuesday night meetings, and when you attend the seminars, etc. AND, in their policies and procedures, you are not allowed to sell it on social media, eBay or Craigs List, or anywhere else except word of mouth basically.

My sister in law and her husband are acting like lemmings, willing to do anything for the LIFE business, yet they are still not making money even after all they have spent and all the time they have used. Eventually I fear their marriage will fail them because LIFE will still not help them to be successful.

Well, in order to get that dream, you need to go out and recruit recruit recruit! And if your dream is not big enough e. That sounds exactly like coercion and dishonest tactics!

I encourage ALL people who consider doing LIFE Leadership to really consider what they are doing and how it is going to affect not only themselves, but those whom they recruit. We were told we would make our money back within a month because so many people were being enrolled under us. That is simply ridiculous. However, I am saying, look at the history of the founders, look how they have manipulated votes, filed lawsuits, etc. They can take your PV and bonuses from you at any time! While that may not happen most of the time, if you turn on them, it can happen, and has happened in the past.

January 13, at Lazy man thankyou for the blog. I was in during Quixtar, leadership time, and the beginning of the Mona vie partnership. I got out when I started to see the light. A good business does not have one winning person and 99 others buying over priced stuff. If a person wants the juice for health reasons they would be better served using the money that they would spend on this business and buying fruits and vegetables. You will save money in the long run and you will still have all your friends and family to associate with later.

Have them give you proof. If you can live with yourself by having others lose money so you can have your dream then by all means go for it. Personally I have more integrity than that. January 14, at I am so grateful to have stumbled across this blog. I had a great friend who i havent heard from in a number of years who brought over a leader and invited me to an information session last night.

I felt hesitant…the whole thing seemed legit but something didnt feel right. My wife and i have 3 children, two of whom are under 3. I have a good job and we sacrafice so my wife can be a stay at home mom. So you can see how quick money would be attractive.

Doing research this morning and seeking answers from God through scripture and prayer revealed a lot to me. We are not to peddle the gospel fpr profit…any of it. It was smart…but didnt stand up to any research. Trying to use google to research the negatives about this man and his company is not as easy as just plugging in a few search requirements.

I have a friend who owns a company that specializes in manipulating google top 10 searches…so.. Anyhow thank you guys for the final nail in the coffin.

And I honestly mean it when I say have a blessed day!! February 4, at 6: Oh and I was googling it cause a co-worker just bought in and asked me to go to the Tuesday night That told me there that it is more than likely BS. Thanks for the info and your 2 cents. February 12, at You say Pyramid Schemes are illegal. The system in life is different. Lets say Bob recruits me. All the meantime I wanna go crazy and I go and get people left right and centre, I start a new leg, I go left right and centre on that leg.

I can easily pass Bob and make more money than Bob. You are in a straight line and are paid by preformance. If I get more people in my first line and second line than Bob, I get paid more. If I open up a third leg, I might get paid more than the current leader of the first team and then I become the leader of my own team.

VS Jean makes less. But Jean sponsored him…so can that happen in a Pyramid? NO because You cannot overlap the person who got you in, in a pyramid.

In a pyramid, you cannot get paid more than your upline, just like your down line will never get paid more than you. If anyone is coming here cause someone brought you to a meeting or showed you the plan. I had nothing in my name when I got involved. This is an oppertunity where if you have nothing you can get everything. When recruiting is involved it becomes a pyramid scheme. Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing had two former attorneys general on its board of directors. In the s the police were the ones selling illegal cable descramblers in my town.

I refer you to the FTC document above. It does not say that you would never be able to make more than someone in your upline. But Jean sponsored him… so can that happen in a Pyramid? From the FTC guidelines: Sounds like Claude Hamilton by being the Canadian founder is making his money based on the number of people he recruited and his sales to them rather than selling to product to people unaffiliate with Life.

You have presented convincing proof that Life is indeed a pyramid scheme. Sure, why would anyone listen to the FTC, who is the authority on the topic? I wonder what those Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing distributors are doing now, when their time and energy went to waste.

Jason- Your statements are based upon…what? February 14, at 2: My husband and i met in life leadership and we absolutely love this business. If you would like to look at pyramid schemes you should look at the cooperate world. I currently work in this world until we are out of our job with life leadership which will be shortly Nothing about life is brain washing they simply give you the current facts of life, debt, divorce rate, raising children, etc most people have taken a blind eye to it and accepted their current situation as life and pretty much wait to die by doing the same thing day in and day out.

February 15, at 9: Kristina, you might want to do a little more research. You are the one that seems to be confused about pyramid schemes. Corporate America is Not a Pyramid Scheme.

Disreputable companies and people like Orrin are spreading information to confuse consumers about the differences of a hierarchical organization versus a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes have both, just like TEAM and Life.

Sounds like you should spend some time away from the negativity that LIFE is filling you with. February 27, at 1: I would like to ask everyone out there who commented in the previous years about how great LL is, how is it now? Since you have been part of it.

I want all of you to google definition of a pyramid scheme is. If your to lazy to do so here is googles definition. You have to pay My friend came to me and my husband with this idea of us joining. BUT did he care…. We are already finanically in a tight spot. Every penny counts for us. We have no extra money and he doesnt care he keeps pushing my husband to pay out to this and its ruining our marraige. If I knew there were not creeps in this world i would give you my number to personally.

This guy wants my husband to go against what I agreed on him with and spend money anyways. If they truly cared about anyone and their life they would not try and force people against their families. March 7, at 1: Just got scammed into going to one of these meetings. Had a friend say that him and some of his friends do leadership consulting. The speaker cited this Inc list multiple times. Good to know its fake. I asked what they said the 5 love languages. I nearly died laughing. Every book they talked about was either something you can get at the library or I had never heard of the book or author.

Then they started asking if I wanted to be an author because they would make sure it went out to their list of , people and get on have nyt best seller list right away. The whole experience was hilarious. March 10, at Has anyone ever heard of a real estate training called Leader Choice Coaching. March 11, at 9: April 8, at You should read E myth and realize that over 80 of all businesses fail within the first 5 yrs and then understand why.

This would pertain to most business structures. I have been in business for 21 years and the fact of the matter is there is no guarantee success in any business. The odds are stacked against you for most business models. Most people are not willing to make the sacrifices to get over that threshold to become successful.

I would also like to add that just because you are successful in one business does not mean you will automatically become successful in another. I would love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with you Lazy Man someday. Small Business Administration has this handy PDF of information. It is a big difference between , of a million succeeding and 10 of a million succeeding. It is an empty statement, because no one should have those expectation to begin with. April 8, at 1: The two terms are not synonymous.

A business may close for various reasons other than failure. For instance, a successful sole proprietor may choose to start a new company, or take full-time employment, or merge with another company. A successful business may close to the death of the proprietor, or due to relocation to another state, or retirement.

There are myriad reason why a profitable successful business may close that have nothing to do with failure. On the other hand, we know with a high degree of certainty that the overwhelming majority of MLM participants fail to earn significant profit or lose money. April 8, at 9: Statistics tell us that by the end of the first year at least 40 percent of them will be out of business. The biggest difference is pennies on the dollar in at risk capital.

People in traditional businesses lose life savings, cars houses in a lot of cases if they fail. Most people quit MLM in the first few months losing only hundreds instead of tens of thousands.

I have only been successful in 2 out of 8 companies that I have started. If I would have quit, I never would have found and built the ones I currently had. One took 8 years before it turned a profit but within 3 years out performed my 20 yr old company. If I would have based my success upon the opinions of others because I had made no money, I would have dearly missed out.

By the way, neither business is MLM. The point is most businesses do not turn a profit for years. My point… if you read my previously cited stats… is that the failure rate in MLM is much, much worse than the not very high failure rate in a traditional field. To top it off, that house of cards is itself built on a company that has the same risk of shutting down in 5 years. After all, the two companies mentioned in this article, TEAM and MonaVie, are gone.

If applied to opinions of investing all your money in Apple you would be rich. You can discount the opinion of others when they lie like I shown Orrin in this article. They only want to talk about Team or Life, him in general, or MLM. April 9, at I was not commenting on the article I was commenting o all the negative comments and just giving a person who has been in business for 21 years perspective I speak from experience not from book smarts. Unfortunately, most people waste more money on pop and snacks than they would on a MLM.

I wish you well in your quest. There are product samples to buy and gas to meetings. No one is saying that starting a business is cheap although it can be with The Lean Startup method. It also fails to follow the rules of supply and demand as explained here. It will happily create thousands of distributors even if not one person wants to buy the product. I appreciate your experience in traditional business.

I run a traditional business myself. You might also want to follow the news on Herbalife and how every regulatory organization I can think of is investigating them. April 13, at 9: My wife just became involved with Life and took me to a meeting this past weekend. I like some others here see this for what I believe it is pyramid scheme.

The people appear to be those who have no sense of belonging, and this group gives them that. The company as they call themselves sells what I consider to be self help items, so I guess that explains why people who seem to have no sense of belonging join up. If this kind of stuff were true, everyone would do it right. The thing that scares me the most is the people who were at his seminar follow like they are part of a cult. I pray my wife is one of the success stories here and not one of the failures, but I guess time will tell.

April 18, at All people have choices. You can choose the life you have our choose to change it. To change will require growth and with growth comes pain. Just take weight training for instance. Life can feel like that. It will beat u up. There very little truth out there. The truth is ur best friend, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, in laws, even parents may take advantage of u to benefit themselves, not to mention some business partner, be it MLM, conventional biz.

Is a dad would we live in today to b that synical. With that being said get facts and do research and go with ur heart. Not all things r for everyone. Personally I believe what LIFE is doing will go down as one of the greatest movements in history.

Influence is not to b confused with coercion. Any way my phone about to die LOL! Email addresses are not published. April 19, at 9: I pointed out the lies in the article. Time has proven them wrong. Forbes said it was wrong in It is and it is still shown to be wrong. Good luck in attempting to earn a stay in the house built on lies to thousands and thousands of people.

April 20, at Did you read that drivel on a fortune cookie? WTF does that have to do with LIFE and its pyramid scheme nature? Unlike weight training, which never fails to yield results, MLMs offer a false promise of income, which in reality only comes to fruition for roughly 1 out of a thousand distributors, and they are essentially pre-selected from the get-go. No, that is not the truth; it is pure BS. What kind of dysfunctional family were you raised in where the people closest to you are all out to take advantage of you?

Thanks for sharing yet another profound pearl of wisdom. Wow, what an honor. I have no idea why your blog still remains high on any search regarding Orrin Woodward. Frankly you have ooooolllllldddd material that at this point is irrelevant to Life Leadership.

Here is the truth, I work part of says enforcing contracts for an alarm company. The crap Americans will blame on others is ridiculous. No one put a gun to anyones head to join Life. No one is forced to spend anything at all at Life. We have a country of whiners, who blame their lack of ambition on others.

Why not spend those hours making a real difference. Like generating some real money. April 21, at 9: Just like this article, it covered the misinformation that he spreads. It is a stupid, stupid attempt to justify defrauding people with lies and misinformation.

You are a commissioned salesperson… commissioned by an illegal pyramid scheme of recruiting, not a legal hierarchical organization. MLM has never been about effort, failure is mathematical certainty. I love to help people. I make enough money to make me happy. It is certainly better than trying to generate money from an illegal pyramid scheme.

Tell them that there succuss bring customers of LIFE has limitations. Oh wait does it matter the work ethic of those who fail, regardless of LIFE biz or information for their biz or they use the random information found in the LIBRARY. Wonder why that is. I know what ur gonna say what that got to do with Orrin s illegal biz.

Of u think for a second that any of this is going to slow down or stop he leadership train ur retarded. Oh and Vogel, u must be a knucklehead. April 21, at You might have heard, but the country has a huge national debt and that requires cutbacks. It is easy to give out great information. You can take a few well-recognized books such as How to Win Friends and Influence People and The Power of Habit and re-wrap it up.

So the question becomes is the business model, which clearly looks like a pyramid scheme , a good thing. It would happen if people spent a week working as smart and as hard as possible.

It has always been that way in every MLM in existence. Yet, nearly anyone can walk into a McDonalds and make a profit their very first day. The other allows people to earn profits their very first day. If the people are just recruiting, recruiting, recruiting, and not helping people, Orrin should kick them out. Where is the quality control? If the organization wants to fire the fraudsters and remove the pyramid, maybe it is worth a second look.

If you would have put half of this energy into doing the business then writing this bogus blog you would most definitely be financially well off. That goes for all of you. Samantha, sorry that you have such poor reading comprehension.

I never look for get rick quick or something for nothing business. I am most definitely financially well off. Instead they make false accusations about the author me. It puts the spotlight on how terrible this business is.

I have enough integrity to know that LIFE Leadership is a scam. I tried it, and they use correct principles, but in a deceiving way to trick people into doing things that are unethical.

If you go to the FTC website and read the description of the a pyramid scheme, LIFE Leadership fits it perfectly. Samantha and others, tell me, can you REALLY make any money without recruiting anyone? Has anyone REALLY made any serious money just on selling the products? When Orrin and others tell everyone they earn the money the same as anyone else, and if anyone works hard enough they can have the same type of income, how is that possible? Yes, I know that is similar to big corporations, however like was previously mentioned, I go to work at McDonalds and I can expect to have a paycheck for the hours I put in.

I never got back more than I put in, and again, it only came from a refund. Again, go read the description on the FTC website. Everyone needs those principles in their lives. Everyone does not need those principles to only drive themselves to trick others into spending money so that they can get rich but never actually do. Everyone needs correct principles so they can be successful in many facets of their life, not just monetarily.

If adults had these principles in their lives, they would do better. I finally came to a realization that I can not honestly sell this to my friends and family, let alone strangers. You can not in all honestly say this is an honest business. Once again I invite you to honestly if integrity is a huge part, you will give an honest viewing to this view the FTC website and read the definition carefully on pyramid schemes.

Anyone with an honest heart that has experienced the LIFE Leadership model will agree that what they do is a pyramid scheme. It is not possible. May 16, at You can take from this what you will— but there is a point made at the end. I visited this Life Leadership meeting on Tue MAY at approximately Payment was received on my guest sign in, a normal procedure since the venue at a hotel needed to be paid for. Where is this money going?

I sat down after shaking some hands and meeting some interesting persons. Oil rig workers, social workers, massage therapists, IT industry workers.

This sounds like a good networking platform for all walks of professions. I sat down when the speaker began to take the front; I got a chance to observe him and his presentation presence. Sharp suit, high twist wool with well tailored features. CK shoes, Polo tie clip… he looked the part of success and confidence; but I like to not judge books by their cover. So I waited to listen, observing all that I could. Something hit me right before he began to present though; he stood all alone up front.

I had not noticed before seeing him up stage. The dress and wear of the average attendee was good from far, but far from good. Here I was believing that if you were making a decent amount of income, your living standard typically reflects that?

The first step to success is a dream, so I can admire that. But my observation was this; everyone, including the individual who brought me, is mentally weak and vulnerable. At this point I stopped paying attention to my surroundings and started to focus on the speaker, it was a boring lecture about finance and basics to making money on your own. This is all regurgitated information you can find on the internet for free youtube.

I endured the painfully boring lecture, taking as much fun as I could from this by people watching, observing all of these attendees taking notes and nodding with a sense of confirmation to every word the speaker spoke.

It was kind of cool to see what he meant by family. Everyone in the audience was gradually becoming closer to one another, they were like friends that had known each other for an immeasurable amount of time.

Some numbers were thrown up in the air to attract people into the possibilities and bam, there you have it. Everything started to get real creepy from here. Finally, it was break though, and I began to mingle around the room to find out more about this strange place I have discovered. They were unable to coerce me into signing up and subscribing to anything or buying anything, but not because their pitch was weak or the schematic was obviously unattractive.

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It was not because I have my own businesses, work a good paying job and have a very positive and happy outlook on my life, but it was my ability to think logically and clearly while distractions are being displayed in front of me.

I saw a lot of desperate people get tricked and a lot of illogical business take place. I have no bias, I am not a member nor have I known any of these CEOs prior to visiting this business. I have no bitter taste towards LL prior to meeting them, therefor I am not providing a false or misrepresented comment.

There is no reward in posting this for me, it is just an honest view. LL does seem to help people discover self betterment through some apparent useful books and motivational speaches i. LL only provides these results for people because the people are seemingly not motivated enough themselves to make those steps alone. May 26, at It was absolutely disgusting.

He tried to cram christian values into his presentation and even fake cried. Not long after she decided not to sell her soul to LL her mother sent me a very resentful hate email in which she detailed how she would make absolute certain that I could not respond to her, added that I hate to see people succeed even though after at least six months into the scam she was still very much in the RED , called me a coward; All of this in true LL fashion.

Funny how that works, the only place to get any unbiased information about this pyramid scam is on the internet. June 12, at 3: I was away on vacation when all these comments came in.

All comments are moderated so they went to the holding queue until I could get back. Now I see so much to respond to, I will do it in-line]. This is no different than a resume where you pump up your successes and play down your failures. It means nothing in terms of credibility or lack thereof. People do get fired for misrepresenting their achievements on resumes. They are simply not known to be reputable by the business community in general. Again, nothing but semantics. An improper use of words or definition of words does not make someone a scam artist or a liar.

People use the word pyramid for every direct sales company out there. Are real estate brokers a scam? To be a real estate broker who brings in other real estate people to be part of his team, it is assumed that the more sales that the team members make, the more commission the broker and company are going to make..

The guy on the top is making all off of other peoples efforts.. Is that a Scam, or a pyramid? Misuse of words and improper definitions are a common thing.

Semantics are very important. They mean everything… literally. So you have two choices. When you say direct sales do you mean MLM… they are very different. How far have you delved into the history and details as it pertains to this statement? Do you even know what exactly he means and where that comes from?

I have and it paints quite a picture of original intention, uses and current practices. I also saw a comment of their family member refusing to pay taxes because someone told him that it is stupid. Either that one person was off, or dude was not paying attention. LIFE does NOT encourage people to not pay their taxes. The only advice in that area is to become a business owner to lower you taxable income. Regardless of what kind of business it is, LIFE or otherwise.

Income tax is clearly not a government scam. MLM is no different.

Monavie Review: Struggling To Make Money In Monavie? Do This

Orrin was most certainly NOT a distributor like everyone else. By the way, does this sound like someone who accidentally misused words. Plus he is no longer a distributor of MonaVie to my knowledge. I think the broke up years ago. You might want to keep up. This is a false statement. While I do not represent Monavie or have anything to do with it.

This is the MonaVie illegal medical claims thing all over again. And the placebo effect works in dogs , so it clearly can work in children. In Networking, some will win, and some will lose, but that simply defines life, not a scam. Hence why some win and some lose. Just because a statement is true in more than one territory, it does not mean that the 2 are one in the same. How absurd the comparison would be.. We must be the same because we share a common attribute..

You are trying to convince yourself that some people will be able to hit 10 straight hole-in-ones in golf if they just practice enough. You are ignoring the circumstances that make any amount of practice or training irrelevant. Does this take into consideration the above mentioned facts? Some people are not teachable. Some people refuse to follow instructions. Some people think they know better. Most people that join any network marketing company start the same way. They get over zealous and make tons of industry mistakes.

They are excited and want to get going. It sometimes takes a while to rein them in and put them on the proper path, that is when they are teachable. This leads to disappointment, quitting before they get results, not knowing that there is a system and timeline to things depending on their effort.

So when they quit because they are not a millionaire if 5 min, of course the company is to blame and it must be a scam.. But I dare say when assuming percentages and calculations. None of these factors enter in. That should give a more accurate reading of business success.

It comes from this expert analysis as well as this analysis on MonaVie. It includes everyone, people not teachable and those who move too fast as well as those few who are successful. If it did then every company would not let someone join until they could show they had the necessary skills to be successful. Now I see so much to respond to, I will do it in-line.

This comment was exceeded the character count of the publishing system and the final two points had to be truncated. Jen can repost the comment that was left out if she wishes and I will respond to them.

If you do some research in Orrin the person you can find out the difference between Orrin first getting into MLM and the Orrin of LIFE Leadership. As we all do, people grow and learn. He is no exception. What rings true today is not always the way it was.

It would take a saint to not lose their shit on that one. Amway looks awesome compared to MonaVie… it is actually still around and not essentially out of business. And of course Life appears to be as big a shit-storm than either. So what was learned again?

It is also interesting that you have never been in an MLM yet you are an expert on what makes it a scam. As with anything else, there is a target market.

If people are trying to sell in the wrong market, they are going to have a hard time. Can you get these exact same products somewhere else? This is likely to not work out. Where if you actually make a proper comparison, you would have said that if you opened a store that sold Honda civics, with proprietary features and you were the only company that sold them and you charged k a piece.

This is less likely to fail. Some people will pay it just to having something that is a little rarer than the others. Some will pay it for the features. If there was no demand, there would be no point in the supply. Since a lot of the companies are still in business. I think its ok. Even with the business opportunity and the purchase used as an admission to it, the company went out of business. If you put it on the shelf at Wal-Mart with no business opportunity behind it, it would have gone out of business much, much faster.

There was no target market for MonaVie except for sick people who were desperate for anything… and people looking for a business opportunity that they thought could make them serious money. They do this, because they purchases are used to qualify for commissions in the scheme. They can price it however they want and people will buy for some time, considering it a cost of doing business.

However, they realized how much money they were losing and quit and hence the failure of the company. MonaVie tried to and got away with for awhile because people thought they could sell the juice at a ridiculous price point under the idea of creating a business.

MLM breaks the laws of supply and demand of a product, but adding in a factor that is in high demand, the promise of financial freedom. Again back to your mathematics.

MLM is a numbers game, but not in the way you are portraying. In sales and marketing of any product with any company there is a theoretical law of averages. The more people that have exposure to your business or product, the high chance you have at making sales. Think commercials, flyers, radio ads, billboards etc. Where MLM differs with this is that rather than spending tons of money on these forms of advertising, they show people in person. It is more effective and lucrative.

Mathematically it does work. Your stats are skewed. What are the success stats on that? How many companies fold after 1 year, 5 years, 10 years? How much money is dished out for startup, and maintenance over those 1,5,10 years? How long does it take them to be in the black rather than in the hole?

So yes, working 8 hours a day, days a year which is likely more because people that own their own business, regardless what kind, generally put in way more than 40 hours a week if it is their sole income.

If you are a business expert, you should know these things. There is nothing about me in the math. I covered the failure rate in MLM vs. I used statistics from SBA. I reviewed Outliers, the book where Malcolm Gladwell makes the statement. You say this as if it is a bad thing somehow.

MLM is on the rise. The companies and the products are getting better and better with each passing year. Governments are approving the business plans and the structures. Every company is different in the way they do and teach things. More people are looking to buy back their time in the long term so they can raise their kids, spend time with their families, help people in need.

MLM at its current stage is being in the right place at the right time. So time to get in your 10, hours. MLM is actually declining in comparison to the growth of the population. The industrial age is has been passed by the information age years ago. Actually most of the companies today are not legit.